Suretrader Review by Warrior Trading

suretrader

Suretrader Review: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

Learning how to day trade was the hardest thing I ever tried to do.  It took me years before I found any success.  One of the things I now realize, looking back, is that my learning curve took 2x longer than needed because I was using the wrong tools.  I wasn’t using a broker designed for Day Trading, I didn’t have the right Scanners to find stocks, and I didn’t use good charting software.  As a result, I was trading at a serious disadvantage.

 

Access to the Best Trading Tools

The challenge with access to the best trading tools is that what is best for one trader may not be best for another.  Additionally, we have to measure the costs associated with trading tools because the best tools may not be cost effective for a beginner trader.  A few of the tools I consider to be a MUST are Trade-Ideas, TC2000 or eSignal for charting, and a fantastic broker.

Throughout the years I have actively traded with Suretrader.  When I first traded there the commissions were 4.95 per trade up to 10k shares, and they allowed direct access routing to ARCA, EDGX and other market makers.  This gave them a competitive advantage against many brokers that only allowed smart routing.

 

Changing Commission Structure

In 2017 Suretrader changed their commission structure from 4.95 for up to 10k shares (plus an ECN fee between .0015-.0045) to .01 per share.  To clarify the difference in price, .01 for 10k shares is now $100.  That is a huge increase in commission.  It’s almost an unthinkable increase.  In all my years of trading I’ve never seen such a large change in commission structure at a broker.

As you can see from the pricing table below, Suretrader has the highest commissions out of all the brokers we’ve reviewed when trading more than 2000 shares.  I personally trade with average share size between 5k-10k, but for people who trade with less than 2000 shares the increased commission may not be as much of a factor.  Interactive Brokers offers a similar per share pricing structure, but it’s 50% less, and they only require a $1.00 min per trade if you trade small size like 100 shares.  However, Interactive Brokers requires $25k to day trade.

What do high commissions mean for traders?  If your commissions are high, you have to be extremely selective about the stocks you are willing to trade.  You can’t over trade, or commissions could easily exceed your profits.  However, one of the things we say to all of our students is “trade the best, leave the rest”.  So that strategy works will with a broker that has high commissions, even though we’d all prefer to have lower commissions and more money in our pockets.

 

Disabling Direct Access Routing

An additional change at Suretrader was the decision to remove direct access routing.  This means traders can no longer send order directly to the market makers.  I traded there during times of Direct Access Routing, and during times of “Smart” routing only.  I was profitable in both instances, but I strongly prefer the ability to choose the direct access route to send my order.

Direct access routing becomes more important as you scale your strategy to 5k, 10k, and 15k shares.  For smaller share size, it’s not as much of a factor.

I requested that they enable direct access routing on my account, but my request was denied.  I have heard anecdotally that they will enable direct access routing for some traders, but I can’t confirm if that is indeed the case.

 

Conclusions on Suretrader

As a result of the changes at Suretrader in regards to commission pricing and direct access routing, the competitive advantage they once enjoyed is now gone, in our opinion.  For that reason, I won’t trade there.  However, for traders who are below the $25k PDT level, they remain the only option, which means they will continue to enjoy a steady flow of traders.  For traders who use smaller size, direct access routing and per share commission may not be as much of a factor.

Despite the higher commissions, if a trader is confident in their skill, it will not stop them from being profitable, it just makes it more difficult because they have to overcome the higher cost of overhead due to commissions.

Since moving away from Suretrader, we have worked closely with Lightspeed Financial and TradeZero to develop promotional discounts to Warrior Trading Students.  Both of these brokers offer reasonable commissions and direct access routing, making them a more favorable option for a true day trader, and for our students.  We will reiterate that using the best tools will give you an advantage, which makes it extremely important to carefully select your broker.

 

11 Comments

  • ALEX

    June 2, 2017 at 6:32 pm

    Which one is currently the best one for a new trader who is a US resident, starting with $1000 and wants margin the benefits of margin suretrader had to offer?

  • John

    June 3, 2017 at 1:16 am

    Hi Ross, even though an opinion it is true. Sure trader are remarkably more expensive for the what they provide. they charge for depositing, withdrawing and sitting still. I have regretfully opened a 10K account which coat $350 in fees and now is going to cost $350 to close it. Being an overseas trader I am limited. I am looking to move my trading with TRADEZERO. people do not like being ripped-off. This is not just my opinion it is my experience with them they do lack professionalism is customer service as well, that’s another story.
    You were very generous in the 3 star rating you gave them.

  • luke

    June 28, 2017 at 12:19 pm

    Hi ross, which broker is available for non-us residence?
    Thanks!

  • Jeff

    June 29, 2017 at 12:13 pm

    Check out Tradezero (for all non-US residents): https://www.warriortrading.com/tradezero-broker-rebate-program/

  • Ton

    July 2, 2017 at 4:53 am

    Interactive Brokers allows smaller orders size. It means that by executing Your order in 2 tranches, each just 1 tick below the other, Your average price improves by $0.005, resulting in a commission free order.

  • Anton Steyn

    July 7, 2017 at 8:32 am

    Hi Ross
    Could you please update your table above to include Trade Zero

  • Randy

    July 15, 2017 at 11:20 am

    What about trade station?

  • Mark

    August 31, 2017 at 11:46 am

    I have currently been using SureTrader for over 5 years. I just recently moved and asked them if I could close my account during this process. Long story short. They assured me multiple times that I would be able to turn back on my account with DAS Trader Level II at the promotional price I received of $20/month. Literally as soon as I said yes, go ahead, a string of emails came in apologizing for the confusion and if I wanted the same deal it was going to cost me $130/mo. This was a small account, I have spent tons of money with them on commissions over the years. They could have absolutely cared less and sent me instruction on how to close out my account. I have chat transcripts and emails that show this. Also, throughout my time with them, customer service has ranged from non-existent to fantastic. Depending on who you are able to get via phone or chat on any given day. Just my 2-cents.

  • Trader1

    October 5, 2017 at 4:40 pm

    There are a few other major problems with SureTrader:

    1) They modify your orders in an undocumented way without your explicit approval, or route orders to places that don’t support the order you submitted, so your order gets rejected.

    An example of the order twiddling is if you submit an order with Type FOK and Minimum AON, if sent to their primary route PDQM, SureTrader will change the order on the fly without your approval to Type DAY, Minimum Any. Also, if you submit an order for Type IOC, and Minimum AON, they will honor the IOC, but twiddle the Minimum to Any. They said they do this because PQDM doesn’t support FOK, or IOC+AON.

    However, sometimes when sending IOC+AON orders, it will be rejected instead of the AON changed to Any, dependent on the route they send it to.

    Hence, the fair thing for SureTrader to do given they don’t allow you to pick your route, is to send FOK and IOC+AON orders to routes that support it, and not twiddle your orders without your explicit approval.

    2) When submitting IOC+Any orders that route to PDQM, the liquidity can be spotty. For example, I’ve sent many Limit Bid/Ask orders for a 1000 shares on various stocks, and have found that the first fill of many orders is for 100 shares, 2, 10, 68, etc. It’s obnoxious because it generates frivolous commissions at the expense of the client. If SureTrader wants to use routes that have poor liquidity, I would rather use IOC+AON or FOK orders so I get all of the shares or none at all, or SureTrader should set it so that if I don’t get at least 1/2 the requested shares the order is cancelled.

    3) Their Desktop Pro platform crashes at least once every 1-2 weeks with something like:
    DasTrader caused an Access Violation (0xc0000005) ,in module DasTrader.exe at 0023:0043e5e7.

    This has occurred on various past version, and the current 5.2.0.8. While the program can be reopened quickly, it’s pretty scary to think the program could crash in the middle of a trade. Also, others have reported their DAS software crashing, so it’s not a new issue.

    The bottom line is presently, SureTrader is inviting their clients who are avoiding the PDT rule to switch to a direct route competitor once they get their account up to $25,000.

  • Joe

    October 12, 2017 at 12:20 pm

    Sure Trader is a scam. They shouldn’t even have the articles written about them. I’m suspect of any company that does a “review” on them.

  • Ion

    October 25, 2017 at 4:09 pm

    Hey Ross, I noticed they changed their price structure yet again. Just found out after reading your review.

    I’ll be expecting your SureTrader vs Tradezero comparison after these changes.

    All the best.

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